All posts by Weedle McHairybug

Yeah, I got that, though I wonder why you were telling me this (since I suspect your post was a direct response to mine)? I have no problem with the Empire losing because of underestimating the Rebel Alliance or their being overconfident regarding their victory over the Rebels (heck, the American Minutemen managed to beat the British Empire that formerly acted as their handlers via a similar method, and Nazi Germany also had similar problems caused by this with the French Resistance). I was objecting to the fact that Lucas specifically modeled the Rebel Alliance on the Vietcong and the Empire on America (besides, it wasn't even overconfidence in our victory that caused us to lose Vietnam, and if anything, technically, we and the South Vietnamese actually won the war (though admittedly we did have rough spots along the way due to McNamara and Lyndon B. Johnson deciding to draw out the war for no real reason other than possibly to follow the United Nation's rules of engagement when the entire point of a war is to actually win it). If anyone was overconfident regarding victory, it was the NVA and the Vietcong. The only mistake we made during that time besides letting Johnson and McNamara do things that way was letting the press do coverage on the war, ESPECIALLY members of the press who are more likely to root for our enemies than their own country, and it bit us hard when Walter Cronkite falsely reported that the Tet Offensive was a disaster for the Americans [oh, don't get me wrong, it WAS a disaster, but it was a disaster for the Vietcong, not for us Americans.] all just to ensure we left the war sooner than expected.). Oh, and also letting Congress basically backstab our South Vietnamese allies by not delivering them any aid whatsoever when the NVA made its final push, whether it was rearming or reloading their weapons or even giving them air support, in the wake of the Watergate Scandal.

We did wipe out the Vietcong during the Tet Offensive, though, and we even made sure to do a peace treaty accord where we made very clear if the North Vietnamese were to try anything, we would be back, as the Terminator once said. However, certain unsavory people in our own government exploited the Watergate Scandal and Nixon being impeached specifically to backstab the South Vietnamese at their time of need, even though we promised to supply aid to the South Vietnamese. The fact that one of our own news reporters lacked the integrity to even do an unbiased view on Vietnam to such an extent that he brazenly lied about how the Tet Offensive turned out certainly didn't help matters, either. I'm not at all happy about what happened to your country regarding it becoming Communist and our part in that, any more than you were regarding what happened (in fact, I very much sympathize with you and your parents regarding what happened during that time and don't blame you at all for holding us in contempt for our failure to stop the North Vietnamese invasion, and if anything, I am also very disgusted with Congress for backing out of it. Had it been me during that time, had I been born during that time that is, I wouldn't even care if it was majority vote or not, I'd STILL hold our end of the bargain and make SURE the South Vietnamese were well-armed). The anti-war group was just a bunch of cowardly jerks, and that's just putting it nicely. To put it not-so-nicely? They were traitors (yes, they were that, since many of them supported the Vietcong and Ho Chi Minh, as evidenced by their anti-war chant "Ho-Ho-Ho Chi Minh! NLF's Gonna Win!").

I'll look up Agent Orange's effects on Vietnam when I get the chance, though.

And actually, I didn't even think to look at Wikipedia. I also read up on the Politically Incorrect Guide to Vietnam as well as the Sixties, and I've done extensive amounts of research into the area beyond those two sources.

Felt I needed to clarify that bit. Continue with the discussion, and Ninja on Fire, we'll discuss it on my wall if you wish to continue.

Well, for the purposes of this topic: This was not an easy decision, and I actually had to think long and hard about this decision when making it, especially when I would not support the likes of the Empire ordinarily because of their genocidal actions and using terror to keep people in line. That said, though, thanks to some things Lucas revealed about the concept origins of the Rebel Alliance when making the first Star Wars movie that were backed up by notes as well as even associates of Lucas, I ultimately have to vote Empire after remaining neutral since Han Shot First on Afterburner first mentioned the Ewoks were the Vietcong and the Empire was America.

Yes, the Empire was brutal, yes, they used fear, and those are reasons why I was reluctant to vote for them in the first place. However, they were also based on America during the time of the Vietnam War. The Rebel Alliance (not just the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi, but also the entirety of the Rebel Alliance, including Luke, Leia, and Han) were all based on the Vietcong. And let me tell you, the Vietcong's actions towards people were significantly more brutal and inhumane than even the likes of Palpatine could ever dream of enacting, and makes even the Empire's worst crimes comparable to Steve Barkin (tough, but fair, in other words) they're THAT horrific. And they were Stalinist communists as well. And to have Lucas make Star Wars specifically as an "allegory" to American involvement in the Vietnam War (ie, basically bash America as being imperialist and acting as cheerleader to the Vietcong), making sure the Empire was based on America as well as made a villain, while having the Rebel Alliance be based on the Vietcong and treated heroically, just left a stinging sense of betrayal with me, so I'm essentially forced to vote for the Empire because while the Empire is bad, it's still based on my native country of America, and besides, I simply can't in good conscience vote for a group that massacred, tortured, enacted extremely brutal punishments, and were communists and also were treated as the heroes (which is essentially what I would be doing if I supported the Rebel Alliance). Darn you, Lucas! And in case you think I'm joking about Lucas actually basing the Empire and the Rebels on America and the Vietcong, respectively, I'm not (though I truly wish I were joking...), and I have the links to prove it:

• http://nypost.com/2014/09/21/how-star-wars-was-secretly-george-lucas-protest-of-vietnam/
• http://www.yomyomf.com/star-wars-is-a-metaphor-for-the-vietcong-kicking-american-ass-in-the-vietnam-war/
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns1m_aXJa58 (Not directly related since it largely covered the infamous Han Shot First edit, but Bill Whittle, the show's host, late into the episode briefly mentions how, according to Lucas, the Ewoks were supposed to represent the Vietcong, while the Empire was in fact supposed to be America).

Honestly, why couldn't Lucas primarily base the Rebel Alliance on the American Minutemen during the American War of Independence, or even the French Resistance during World War II (I certainly would have willingly supported the Rebels if they were based on those groups primarily instead of the Vietcong as Lucas made very clear)? Why did he HAVE to make Star Wars into anti-war/pro-Vietcong propaganda?!

For a full idea of just what the Vietcong were truly like, and just how much of a disgusting gesture it was to base the Rebels on that group and make them heroes and likewise base the Empire on America (who, BTW, was probably the only thing ensuring that Vietnam and Southeast Asia were safe from becoming a communist massacre zone) and make them villains, read up on this: http://www.paulbogdanor.com/left/vietnam/hochiminh.html